Day 3 EM: Amongst the ruins

[Baesal Zyn]

She shook her head in dismay...the killiks seemed more open minded

''Neither of you have any idea. Of course not...why would I think there would be a spark of curiosity between the two of you'' she turned to Breela ''Selfish soft-ones indeed''

[Azura Mora]

"They kidnapped and enslaved citizens of Alderaan. I don't feel bad about fighting such a threat. I do consider this particular result unnecessarily cruel," he says with a shrug.

"And don't worry Azura. To some people you are guilty by association so defending yourself is probably useless. It was just a field test gone wrong and we'll have Ashlin fix it."

"I assume the judging one here would pardon a Hutt stealing children into slavery?" Azura said with a chuckle, before sighing.

"What's there to be curious about? Bugs stole people an' a home. People who own the home want it back, an' someone cut a deal to get rid of the bugs. Before two days ago I didn't know an' didn't really care. You sayin' what they did to the people of this planet is ok then?"

[Zeno Thul]

"No, her point is that she would have preferred a peaceful solution where the killiks could have been convinced to leave," Zeno replies. "And that may have worked... for a time. Until another Alderaanian accidentally wandered into their territory and was enslaved for breaking a peace they may not have even known about. At which point, more fighting and death."

He looks to Baesal. "I understand the desire, but the path being sought with the sonic emitters is meant to be a deterrent. Like all prototype deployments, we've got kinks to work out and in the meantime House Syrush is safer."

[Azura Mora]

"Huh."

Azura looked thoughtful for a few moments.

"I'm not an expert but I'd have thought someone would have tried that approach already."

[Breela Po]

She shook her head in dismay...the killiks seemed more open minded

''Neither of you have any idea. Of course not...why would I think there would be a spark of curiosity between the two of you'' she turned to Breela ''Selfish soft-ones indeed''

Breela sighed listening to them. "The joiners speak common and, from what I've seen, even while under duress will not force the issue of new recruitment. They're alien but fair from what I've seen. Is it not remotely possible that all the joiners are here because they WANT to be here?"

"Huh."

Azura looked thoughtful for a few moments.

"I'm not an expert but I'd have thought someone would have tried that approach already."

"Assumptions are the lazy choice. Perhaps in the future you'll dare to consider otherwise and in so doing save a life."

She sighed, "intentions are important but the ends remain the same. An atrocity was committed and precious lives were snuffed out."

[Zeno Thul]

"Speaking to them after they've been brainwashed is a really poor way to find out if they want to be brainwashed. They have no option but to feel the way the hive feels. And anyone without experience feeling other people's thoughts or emotions can't make an informed decision about whether that's for them. My understanding is that people who end up in these hives generally tend to be people that got lost on patrols or outings. Not strong evidence that they chose it. I've never heard any stories of anyone that said to their house, 'See ya, I'm going to join the killiks'."

[Baesal Zyn]

''You make a lot of assumptions yourself but your know even less then us.'' she retorted ''We spoke to them and I touched the hive mind through the Force. You cannot grasp the full picture before you do...and even then it take effort to conceptualize.''

[Breela Po]

"That's not what I-" She sighed, "-I speak only of their ability to communicate. Obviously once the joiner is a part of the hive the former's voice becomes the latter's." Every fiber of her being hated speaking to the Sith, but a dialogue needed to be opened eventually. "Look... all that aside, you said house Syrush?" She turns to Baesal, "Do you remember if that name was listed in regards to the stolen artifact from the museum?"

[Baesal Zyn]

''Syrush? Hmmm, let me check'' she brought her datapad out and checked a few strands of intel ''Not that I can see...not for that vase anyway''

[Zeno Thul]

"Yes, I understand that about the voice. But you asked if it was possible if all the joiners were here out of choice. The likelihood of every joiner wanting to be part of the hive before the change is highly improbable. And the possibility that joiners want anything outside of the general desires of the hive is also improbable. So the possibility that all the joiners want to be here before they changed is highly unlikely, and after the change it is a given," he says, shrugging.

[Breela Po]

Her eye was twitching but she relented, "Perhaps you are correct, you might even consider sponsoring further research into the phenomenon of 'Killik' indoctrination and ways to reverse it. I'm sure understanding would go a lot further than violence. Wouldn't you agree Knight Zyn?"

[Zeno Thul]

"Knowing how to reverse it would require knowing how it's done. Do you want to volunteer to become a joiner so scientists can observe the process? Hopefully your mind isn't irreversibly damaged in the process."

[Breela Po]

"Let's volunteer together," she offered, "maybe then we'll at last understand each other. That or we'll bicker the hive into throwing us out."

[Azura Mora]

"Wow."

Azura looked at the Farghul, then the Togruta, then back at Zeno.

"I'm never gonna say I'm the smartest, but these two are idiots right? If you brainwash someone they're going to say and feel exactly what the brainwashers want you to say an' feel. Even I know that."

She sighed, walking a little further away to survey around.

"So, everything is dead here then? Nothin' wandering around?"

[Baesal Zyn]

''Just leave'' Baesal ended up saying ''You are clearly either lacking the intellectual capacity to understand the width of the situation or are just entirely unwilling to even try to understand so you can excuse your actions.''

[Zeno Thul]

Looking to Azura, "Baesal's not an idiot. She just is set in her beliefs, like many Jedi, that peaceful means should be the first step. It's not even unreasonable most of the time."

He looks to his former classmate. "But things with the killiks have been far from peaceful for a long time. Even if we could come to terms, the joiners would always lead to fighting. A hive would not give up a part of their mind so easily to return them, if it's even possible. And the Alderaanians would always be disgusted with the kidnapping and warping of their people. Peace with them would be untenable over a long period."

[Azura Mora]

''Just leave'' Baesal ended up saying ''You are clearly either lacking the intellectual capacity to understand the width of the situation or are just entirely unwilling to even try to understand so you can excuse your actions.''

"The woman who is trying to excuse brainwashin' is calling me lacking intellect?" Azura laughed at that "Sure, whatever. Guess you don't know what oppression is like on your high an' mighty jedi cloud."

Looking to Azura, "Baesal's not an idiot. She just is set in her beliefs, like many Jedi, that peaceful means should be the first step. It's not even unreasonable most of the time."

He looks to his former classmate. "But things with the killiks have been far from peaceful for a long time. Even if we could come to terms, the joiners would always lead to fighting. A hive would not give up a part of their mind so easily to return them, if it's even possible. And the Alderaanians would always be disgusted with the kidnapping and warping of their people. Peace with them would be untenable over a long period."

"You don't make peace with people who enslave others. You get rid of 'em" Azura added with a frown

[Baesal Zyn]

''Neither of you understands. One clearly less then the other.'' she rubbed her temples as she spoke, trying to fight the headache ''The killiks are alien to our way of thinking and the reverse is also true. The frames of references are warped by nature...the human centric approach is wrong.''

[Zeno Thul]

"It's not about being alien, it's about being unintelligible. We would need someone that could communicate with and understand the mindset of both sides, some means of finding common ground, the ability to forgive past wrongs to both sides, and each hive is apparently it's own entity. If you want to convince the Jedi to send a group of people even capable of communicating with killiks, that would be dedicated to maintaining peace in perpetuity with a bunch of different hive minds, then I wouldn't argue it. But until such a time, when killiks and citizens clash over inconceivable differences their worldview I'm going to side with the citizens," he explains from his point of view.

"It's not a question of right and wrong. It's a question of practicality, and it is more practical from the standpoint of Alderaan to find a way to keep borders from clashing than to figure out peace with a mind that is unknowable to the average citizen. Some will seek to destroy them, others will be okay with occasional clashes, I personally prefer a means of preventing incursions. Let them do their thing, but keep them from harming our people. Unfortunately, we made a messy omelet this time."

[Azura Mora]

"Slight understatment on messy omelet there" Azura commented idly as she looked around, moving away from the group a little. The talking was pretty boying at this point

(ooc - can i do a roll to look around? Vigilance/perception or something)